Late 60's Early 70's American Muscle Car Tournament Final Results

no it shut off when it fell, dunno if it works or not havn't tried to turn it on yet, if its broke guess i won't be having a 360 anymore

Wow, X8Eleven must have been flying. I believe my final time was 41:04.543. I had no damage and was able to stay clear of traffic the whole race, but there were several laps where I would mysteriously drive into the sand and lose a few seconds. I think Savage almost went to battle me through the first turn, but was very kind in letting me stay in front without much fuss. Anyway, I guess X8Eleven will have to go back into the group of death again

Dominic Mako wrote:

Wow, X8Eleven must have been flying. I believe my final time was 41:04.543. I had no damage and was able to stay clear of traffic the whole race, but there were several laps where I would mysteriously drive into the sand and lose a few seconds. I think Savage almost went to battle me through the first turn, but was very kind in letting me stay in front without much fuss. Anyway, I guess X8Eleven will have to go back into the group of death again

0_o

I would have figured that you guys would have been running times in the 39 minute range and 1:33 laptimes lol. I qualified 3rd with a 1:38 laptime, so I thought "eh... I'm gonna finish in 5th again". I don't think I made any major trips into the grass, although I overshot the corkscrew twice (not on my fastest laps)., I misshifted 3 times though and before pitting had an 8% damaged gearbox, and then again at 4% until the race was over. Some practice needs to be done for Clutch, it seems xD

And lol @ the group of death. There goes any chance of winning... slim as it was before. I think the track just likes Corvettes - Stevil put up a fast time as well. If I were in a Trans Am or a Chevelle I would have been last haha

TL:DR

I didn't intend on blowing off this race the way that I did.

I didn't screw around this time.

I was over-confident in my tuning abilities, tweaked the final drive ratio, and left traction control on. (I've been driving without it almost exclusively now, and have been putting up better times)

I was in a rush, and didn't prepare... The early spin out was because I was tantruming on my controller due to traction control pussing out my car.

These aren't excuses as to why I came in last, most of you are much better drivers than I am, I'm simply putting up a little defense here, letting you guys know, I was attempting to take it seriously this time.

Next race I hope to show better, because as far as a valid attempt goes, this was absolutely pathetic on my part.

Although, I did have quite a few clean laps, and I didn't have any damage on my car. So, there's always that.

Damn Eleven! awesome lap time and finish.

1: Dom
2: Turtle
3: Billy
4: Savage
5: Fail

Dom took off and was never seen again.

I had a horible race!

It started out awesome. Dom and i go into the first set of turns neck and neck. I was hanging on to the edge on the outside. I let off the gas, figuring we would have the rest of the race to go at it. But things slowly fell apart at that point.

The worst of all was lap 10 or 11 when i tried to pit....... i took the wrong damn road and ended up in the wall and lost massive amounts of time.

LOL even Rump got a better time than me!!!!!! I will have to get the exact time when i get home. But if i remember it was 44:???

Oh well it was fun, chaulk it up as one of my 2 free races. Meaning, Since i missed the second race... i'll actually have to race side winder

Savage, the 2nd race didn't count (Atlanta) so I think you still have a free race left. Sorry to hear the race didn't go your way D:

Good race everyone, sounds like we had an almost incident free race - who would of thought that going into this one?

Question to the group, and everyone's input would be appreciated. I have not reviewed the replays yet, but what to do regarding clean vs. dirty laps? I'll bet $1000 no one ran all the laps clean, if you did something's wrong with you and you need help.
The issue is this: I'm sure we all had some Duke Bros. like corkscrew moments, but where do we draw the line to start penalizing, and how many secs. per lap? Specifically, let's say Pagan went out of bounds 4 laps out of 25 in the corkscrew and I went out 10. (This is just an example.) Clearly, I would be gaining an advantage in lap times.
So, do we draw the line at 2, 5 10.....? Meaning you could have X number of "bad" corkscrews without being penalized. The reason I ask is because if some racers ran mostly clean, where others consistatly went off in the corkscrew, is it fair to those racers that ran mostly clean, since they didn't get the benefit of quicker laps? Just a quick response on what you think is fair and just would be appreciated.


Here are the unoffical results for Laguna Seca:

1. 8Eleven 40:55.575
2. Dom 41.04.543
3. Stevil 41.33.671
4. Turtle 41.35.363
5. Sally 41.37.100
6. Pagan 41.43.334
7. Billy 41.44.278
8. Savage 42.13.382
9. Rumple 42.13.550
10. Fail DNF - Wild dogs attacked his car - really - sort of.

I think it's possible to judge if the corner cutting was caused by an
overshoot, or if it was intentional, by looking at the telemetry. If it
was an accident, it won't gain you any time (I accidentally overshot the
corner twice, and both laps were 3-4 seconds off of my best). However,
it is possible to take the entire corkscrew full out, if you really want
to, which will shave about 3 seconds off of your lap - maybe more. I
that accidents shouldn't be penalized - as long as you don't continue
the line and you make every effort possible to get back on the proper
line, as that turn is a cornbeef to consistently not screw up. Intentional
cuts (I mean the ones that don't even make an effort to go anywhere near
the proper line, and just accelerate through the corkscrew) should be
given a zero tolerance approach with anywhere between 2 - 5 seconds
tacked on per incident, and 5 of them would warrant a disqualification.
That's my opinion though.

Gosh, that's a tricky one. Like x8Eleven said, it's usually pretty easy to tell when a driver makes no attempt at the corkscrew. Someone who consistently makes an error there though? Well, to be honest there is still a race committee here at FLR. If you felt it was egregious, you could have them review the replay and make a ruling. When a penalty is handed by a committe instead of by an individual, it's less likely to cause any hurt feelings. When it's sent to arbitration though, as a race chief you'll have to live by the decision.

Great points guys. I guess after I review them, I'll see where their might be some questions. I'll then inform the driver about the isssue at hand and submit it to the race committee. I just don't want to have to submit 60 or 70 laps or more since there was 250 total laps (10 drivers X 25 laps) to the race committee.
Not to mention the race committee is difficult to deal with as the members are unappoachable and just plain mean!!!

I wasn't in the last committee meeting, so you're probably right On the other hand, the fact that there was a meeting and almost nobody knows the review even took place means they did a decent job, I think.

It also makes it easier to go back to that driver and say "I was looking at the review of your race, and sent it to the FLR committee to see if your result should stand due to the infractions you had at the corkscrew, and they decided to deduct 3 seconds from each lap where you gained an obvious advantage by driving through that section. This now puts your final time at XX:XX.XXX and your finishing place at #X."

When I'm doing the write-ups for MSM races, I try to keep an eye out for any weirdness going on, but that's because I have to watch the replay anyway. It's impossible to keep an eye on every driver for the whole race though. If you're not planning to review it, then I wouldn't be concerned unless another driver brings it to your attention.

It has been brought up, therefore needs review. That's why I asked the intial question of the group. I guess I'll try to clear 3-4 hours out of my schedule to watch the replays - my eyes should be bleeding when done.
Oh, and you know I was kidding about the Racing Committee. I just don't want to turn into an insane amount of time spent reviewing.

i know i'm a little late, but my thoughts on the corkscrew are this....

i ran out to wide a few times, but even when i did, i was on the brakes and still turned to the left pretty much everytime i did overshoot to get back on course and in doing so usually added 1 second or more to that lap to make sure i didn't cut. Even if you slow down but don't attempt to make the turn the right way you can gain 1 second or better every lap, which can add up to a lot in the end. I hate it for Stevil since he has to wade through all the replays over a game.

Now to a little good news my 360 seems to be fine with nothing more than a scratch that ya can't even see unless you really look for it.

in a race for fun or a set of races for fun. I see no point in spending hours reviewing the replays to penalize someone.



Also we are racing with people from the same league, friends one might say. There should not be any underhandedness taking place. If it is that is something that needs to come into question. If a specific person continues to be called out for taking actions such as cutting corners their membership should come under review.



If it is a race for CR or some other prize, perhaps an investigation is in order. However unless it can be proved as intentional it is not going to come across to the accused in the correct manner.



In any case, if penalties are going to be assessed then that needs to be stated at the beginning of the tourney. Or needs to be a league wide rule.



I dont feel that a review should take place for this set of races, perhaps a rule needs to be placed as one of the FLR rracing rules.


****sorry for size, i have tried over and over to correc. Note to self..... do not copy paste from WORD***

I agree with STD here. This tournament is for fun...Its not like you are handing out a million credits to the winner. There is no reason to penalize anyone if its just for fun. We all know we cut corners yesterday. Hell I did a few times when I came up short on the cork screw. Didnt mean to but it happens. I say we just stick with the results as they are

i agree its all for fun and i'll be honest i was the one that brought up the corner cutting incident, i won't name names and i didn't flat out say they were i just mentioned it to Stevil because what i saw the few laps i was around them wasn't IMO accidental. If everyone just wants to let it go that's fine with me. I'd be willing to go through the replay and see if it happened more than i saw, i can't right now since my dog ended my night and i never got a chance to. If i had watched it and seen it was just a few times i never would have spoken up.

Sorry if i am ruining the "fun" but IMO its not very fun to have someone cut corners a lot and in the end "cheat" so to speak a person outta a spot. In teh end its for fun but a clean race does make it more fun. Sorry

While Sally and Savage bring up valid points, the reason I think the way I think is purely a matter of principle. If someone were to finish before someone else purely because they cut the corkscrew lap after lap, it goes without saying that that person (people) who got beaten by said corner cutter would feel cheated. Sure, there's no prize money at stake, but these races are made to be fun. This is probably my competitive side speaking, but if someone unrightfully placed/won because they cut corners, in my opinion, that's anything but fun, because it causes people to cheat as well to catch up with them. That's just my opinion, though.

Although I'm not in the Racing Committee, I watched the replay from the lobby I was in, and apart from one or two accidental cuts, it was mostly clean. Nobody intentionally cut the chicane once from what I saw. If there was anything I missed, though, I apologize.

If someone were to cut corners just to win is to undermine entirely what we have here!

Its disapointing that in the very short time i have been here this issue of cutting corners to win has come up twice!

perhaps it is time that the racing commity creates rules and penaltied for such infractions.

as i said its disapointing to hear this come up twice in the short time i have been here. it gives one reason to think... im very disapointed. We are all here because we want to have a good time and race clean!!! Winning is nice but it isnt everything!!!

i know i had no shot at winning my times were just off, without cutting corners i might have ran with the driver but i screwed up drove off the track and went into "race" gear in the corkscrew right after that. So i was done pretty much just ran because i was getting faster and faster, my fastest lap was the lap before my dog did its deed, i was basiclly hotlapping lol

i only said something because honestly it just corned me off that someone resorts to cutting corners in such a fun series.

If its determined it wasn't on purpose or didn't happen that much i will be the first one to say my bad and i'm sorry

I'm going to withdraw from this series. It was fun, and thanks for the races. I may pull out the Lucky Strike Trans Am on some future events.

It was fun being 3000 ft behind you xD

Enjoyed the time racing with you and hope to do it again. You showed me ways to improve my driving and different racing lines and thank you for joining us.

Ya, it was fun racing with you, even though you pulled away from the WHOLE pack the last race lol

I want to run the Pontiac GTO tonight.